Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:05 Welcome to felt architecture, breeze blocks, where our editors share their thoughts on works in progress, urgent matters, and current happenings in architecture and spatial politics. My name is Charlie <inaudible>. I'm an editor on the Netherlands team of Feld architecture and one of fellow architectures organizers at the moment. And today I'm joined by my fellow fellow architecture editors, Stephanie Bacca, and Kiarra door below to talk about the project stories on earth, which is felt architectures contribution to the parallel program of the Dutch pavilion of the 17th Venice architecture be in LA. And this video series brings together storytelling and design to challenge the spatial settings, that pit humanity against nature. Hi Daphne. Hi Charlie. Hi Kiarra.
Speaker 2 00:00:56 Hi, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 00:00:58 Thanks for being here. Um, so I think it'd be nice to start by just introducing the project. Um, I, uh, I've sort of followed it since it was originally pitched and I'd be interested to see how it's evolved in the nearly two years since that time. Uh, obviously there was a pandemic in the way of that, that, that, um, extended your involvement.
Speaker 2 00:01:21 Yeah, well, of course the parlor program was responding to the question who is we, which in turn, was responding to Sarkis curatorial question, how will we live together? And I think that from the beginning, Daphne and I have been thinking about how maybe these questions can be confused at least some times to beat for the architecture discipline. So we've been discussing possibilities in which we get at knowledge like the fact that these questions, of course they have a spatial component. Well, yes, we were like trying to acknowledge the fact that we still believe that. Of course there is something to be said about space and how we inhabit space, but at the same time, these questions, uh, require something a little bit bigger than just a different space or like a different design of space. So in a way, we were like trying to think of how we could combine something different. And we thought about stories and we thought about the fact that maybe, you know, if we could foster these collaborations between writers and designers, we were going to be able to have like a more profound impact on people who would like look at these exhibition or like being involved with it.
Speaker 1 00:02:51 So you mentioned the writer, designer, pairings, quite a interesting array, different artistic practitioners. Um, I'd be interested to know if one of you could kind of elaborate on your reasons for inviting these particular people to kind of comment on the, on the topic of, of the project and how that collaboration has kind of developed over the two years.
Speaker 2 00:03:18 So for the designers, we decided to rely on our network. Of course, uh, we, we sort of thought about practitioners that we knew and that we thought were a good fit for the project and for like the, you know, concepts that we were exploring. So we asked <inaudible>, he he's a landscape designer and he has always been in a way very interested in the relationship between, I still always want to say humans and animals, but of course that shouldn't be how we say it. Well, the, well, the relationship between humans and other animals speeches, let's say, and he had already worked on different projects. For example, on the zoological card dance, he played around with designing architectural structures that were basically creating perfect houses for animals. And you also made some drawings in which he imagined series in which different species would live together. So we thought he was a very good fit for this project.
Speaker 2 00:04:27 Then I'm nothing, he's also a landscape designer. She's also a book designer and she has been working a lot with forests. So she has developed, I think, two or three projects already in which she looks at how a forest somehow shaped the lives of people who inhabit, but also own and work them. And yeah, we thought that was fascinating in a way, because she was already answering the question about how we are already living together with, you know, different entities or in some cases at least, you know, and then of course there's some there, uh, she's the third designer and you know, her of course, because she is one of our field architecture ready tours. She's now an organizer as well. Um, she is trained as an architect, but she has been always interested in questions of ecology and also environmental and social sustainability. We also were curious about what she would bring to the Bridgette because she has been always keen on working with different media. She's been, you know, saw, uh, working with failed architecture for a while. So we thought that combining design and writing seemed to somehow suit her very well. And the case
Speaker 3 00:05:52 Writers, the initial inspiration was to look for writers within the Caribbean community. And the Netherlands is when we first started kind of developing the idea for stories on earth. I was, I was personally inspired by my previous fellowship where you realized how much Caribbean writers have basically tackled with nature as a, as a ballet, as a character in literature, like in Caribbean literature, there's this kind of complex way of, uh, of a complex approach to nature. It's not like this romantic idealization, but this, uh, dealing with also, I guess, the indifference of nature and how it, how it can also be like, this is obviously this place of sustenance, but also danger. So we first approached several Caribbean writers, but of course also due to the pandemic, that's kind of a change. So one of the first writers we approach and who immediately agreed to participate in Scotland latch missing.
Speaker 3 00:06:55 So she has roots in Suriname and bounce sheets, but also has worked with, uh, like environmental costs, her literary careers, also quite fairy, like with poetry, but also a background in theater. So she said, and that says a perfect fit because also initially we wanted to do, let them create something within the space. So that could have been also a good knowledge to have. And in that case, another writer insert a MES root system called mist and the mass is basically his, uh, his pen name. Um, and he lives in Rotterdam and he's also published a book about, um, it's kind of more, this magical film fairytale aspect. And, but he's also works with music and he's a spoken word artists. So we already have like two very kind of, uh, people with a varied background and their output creative output. And finally we rounded off the group with, uh, bossam sad. Who's also very well known in the field architecture scene because he's one of our editors based in Berlin. And cause he also has his own artistic practice, uh, along with writing and, uh, a trained architect. And so of course a perfect fit, even if he's not Caribbean by the end of, that's not the most important factor
Speaker 1 00:08:20 You kind of given me the perfect, um, way of like easing into the next part of what I wanted to talk about, which was, um, I mean that seems to be a theme where there's unsurprisingly I guess a sort of architectural thread with quite a lot of the people contributing to the, these videos that the stories enough project kind of encompasses. Um, I wanted to talk a little bit about the spaces that are covered in, in the, um, in the various videos, they kind of, uh, basically touch upon three different for want of a better word. Um, for one of a less sort of boring architectural word, uh, three spatial type ologies. So you have rhino and alternate story by Anna Maria think and Ms. Dander mass, which concentrates on the zoological garden, then there's the secret planetary garden by Karen Letcher, myrcene and Angela Renner, which relates to the botanical garden. And then the great re-animation by our very own amnesty Lottie and Bassem sand, which covers the natural history museum. I wanted to know, I guess, what is it about these spaces that speaks to the way the theme of stories on earth? I E the false human non-human dichotomy and its role in enabling unsustainable resource extraction?
Speaker 3 00:09:39 Um, well basically I'll treat spaces which we chose as to like starting off points for the project that what they all have in common is that they put forth this, this narrative of the human and the non-human of the district, uh, divide between us and them. And in a way they, uh, they also all have their, their roots in a certain sense in the cabinet of curiosities. They, they basically all narrativize this, this binary that has actually made it possible for us to justify dominating, um, but our, our environment, but also each other. And so it made it like, um, I guess, a kind of, uh, easy way to start questioning how space can be utilized in this way. And then also start to kind of break down, I guess, this, this, this tactic or technique or that to challenge us to think beyond the narratives of these, these spaces push onto us
Speaker 2 00:10:45 Mostly like we wanted spaces that were somehow epidemically breeding, these patient manifestation, these physical money for station of these stick out to me. Like if you think about it, you could almost immediately imagine what is disliked that separates us and them in all three of these examples. Right? You can imagine the bars in the zoo, for example, you can imagine, of course, like this sort of green fences that separate the path where you walk from, like these cultivated garden, where the different botanical species are at the botanical garden. And you can also, um, you know, we all think of like this glass panel always like separating us and the objects that we're looking at in a museum. So we thought that it was interesting too, since, you know, we were doing something quite abstract in a way, like we were asking these people to collaborate and to come up with like new narratives and new stories. We thought it was nice to have these really physical and like drops per bull. I didn't know if that's a word, but like super easy to grasp and to visualize physical manifestation of this separation.
Speaker 1 00:12:07 There's a very obvious identifiable through line between these three different videos, you know, and the, and the topics that they engage with. And I think you kind of distilled it perfectly into this. Yeah. The way that architecture kind of establishes the dividing line, you know, and, and all of these particular settings. Um, I don't know. I th uh, yeah, it's just really nice, um, to, uh, to sort of have it brought together in that quite neat description that you just gave. I hadn't really thought about it in such a clear way and thinking as well about like architecture's responsibility, I suppose, for sort of enabling that dividing line for basically creating the, uh, you know, the, the actual necessary barriers to, to, to sort of instill this dichotomy between human and non-human and make it kind of lived in, I suppose, and this partly kind of leads into my next question, which was about the role of time, because, you know, we've kind of dealt with the spaces now, but there is a sort of temporal aspect of this project is interesting. I didn't bring it up in the notes, but that this does also the, all of these type ecologies do kind of emerge at the same time. Right. They, they come about during the moment of Western Imperial expansion, I guess, like, or the highest stage of it in the 19th century, but the rise of these spaces traces perfectly along that line. Um, I don't know if you wanted to comment on that at all.
Speaker 2 00:13:40 To me it's still very confusing because I think they have been formalized as we know them now in that period that you were mentioning, but at the same time, they all had roots in very ancient times. It's always difficult to trace back the exact moment when these technologies were born. And I think it's a little bit the same with, you know, when we're talking about impurities and like, there were of course Frodo forms of this, like way back in time, but then of course they formalized around these periods.
Speaker 3 00:14:16 That's the tricky part, because of course, like, um, I say, you can say this, it bolsters are just part of, I guess, all kinds of societies to collect plants and animals to collect anything around us. And I guess it says more about, uh, of course the, these, these typologies really spread and developed and professionalized, because this was a period of, of course, like Imperial, um, expansion. And also, yes, like you said, there's like this pro to capitalism, but then it became like more refined or what we know as what is capitalism now on the backs of like this and there's knowledge that was, uh, uh, acquired and you need it like this collections to base your knowledge are written through, um, ah, have you put the drive to understand the world is also a way to dominate the world, right?
Speaker 1 00:15:16 Since we're already, I guess talking about historical time, I wanted to move on to talking a little bit about the, uh, actual setting of, of these, uh, three videos. So the sacred planetary garden goes back into prehistory while the great reanimation is revolving around the recent past, the present and the not too distant future. And then rhino an alternative story is explicitly futuristic. It covers quite a lot of ground, and maybe it's a bit too easy to suggest that it is playing with, uh, notions of time and, and, and history, but I'd be interested to know what importance you attach to these different concepts of time breaking with the sort of Western notion of an endless present that there is kind of alternative futures and also sort of unrealized long histories that, that have been kind of uncovered by these videos.
Speaker 2 00:16:18 I think that's more the point, right? That it's not specifically about like past and future and like something that is like strictly present, but mostly that, for example, you mentioned that I'm an Ms. Project is like specifically futuristic, but I think that that's an interpretation, you know, that's your interpretation of it. And you could see that also as something that just unfolds like a different future or like a different present to like a different reality in which we're not really looking at when, what happened, but like we're looking at different possibilities.
Speaker 1 00:16:55 I, I D I mean, I think like to rephrase it, I could say that like, it's more of a cyclical than a linear notion of time, right?
Speaker 2 00:17:02 <inaudible> yeah. I mean, that also, of course, <inaudible> was mentioning before we were looking at Caribbean, like, uh, literature, but also at three scientific mythology, for example, Greek mythology, but in general, about different ways of approaching reality, somehow in general. And non-linear time, of course, is a big part of that. And we really wanted to put the focus on the relationship rather than on the unfolding of events, so that the stories are always about this relationship between the human and the non-human and not so much about when a certain event happened or what kind of consequence it for like the future or the mental reality that would happen later. So, I mean, also of course, one of the video is talking about these plans or like the first plan that was ever or not earth. And that, I mean, you could imagine that as like being of course setting the past, but the idea is also that the project wants to bring forth like disconnection between today and what we are living today and how we are still connected to that plant, even if it's like so distant in time. And I think that the same goes, for example, for the project about the museum in Berlin, right? Like of course there is a connection with like recent events and you could see that as like being part of our present, but also as being part of a possible next future. But you would also see that as a possible alternative reality that we're not just looking at right now.
Speaker 1 00:18:57 And it's definitely, you wanted to add anything. We could bring things back to the endless present and, um, talk a little bit about the actual event coming up. Yeah. So, uh, on the 24th of September, there's a sort of a presentation of the Dutch pavilions parallel program in a <inaudible> punch in the geo DECA, uh, between five and seven o'clock in the evening. Yeah. I don't know. Uh, I think it's quite funny actually, this, this particular talking point, because we, um, obviously had, um, this, this, um, kind of hastily released article around the time that the pandemic was hitting written by me, uh, saying basically, fuck, be an ally, and then we should stop doing it. And, um, I really feel like, you know, it's gone, it's been a long time since we, that that article was written and I really don't have, I don't feel that strongly about it.
Speaker 1 00:20:00 I was sort of thinking back, like I don't, but there is a sort of, um, a tricky thing to kind of untangle, I guess, it, with this that we are now going to the Fenice be being LA. And you could say that like, yeah, I'm one editor and we're not fed architecture is one voice, uh, which is true. And I can also say like, I never really stood by these words, but I think it might be interesting to just sort of, uh, talk about the fact that we, I think we all kind of believe it, but we're also, you know, we're, we're not highly paid people. You can kind of make principled stands and then stand by them all the time. And also, you know, like we can say something and be hypocritical about it. I think I'll leave it to you now, because I feel like I've just sort of like anticipated some of your arguments. And I don't know, one of you want to talk about that.
Speaker 3 00:20:57 Actually, I do agree with the icy road and the state of the larger scheme of things, we should question, like all these, um, events, basically, what, what is the actual point is like to network and there can also be value in networking, but it's another story. Um, what does it do specifically to the place Venice, and is it really an inclusive event? And, but I guess, and also our intention was not to go to Venice because the parallel programs, part of the Dutch pavilion, we wanted to do something in the Netherlands accessible to more people, but of course the pandemic kind of threw a wrench into our plans. We had to adapting and go on line basically. So basically why we're going to Venice also because they asked us because there wasn't a real proper opening. There aren't any proper events. It's just some way of still kind of coming together for this whole period. Now for almost two years, we haven't really also only true SU really I'd say collaborated also with the other parallel programs. So in a way it is nice to finally be able to see them and, uh, the talk, um, face-to-face basically like how, how could we refuse? Right. It's also a nice way of finalizing the project, having
Speaker 2 00:22:19 One of those orange color drinks that you were sore, then Steamboat piece.
Speaker 1 00:22:27 We knew that actually came through the mark. Cause originally we, we co-wrote it, but I don't know if he took his name off because he was like, I care about my career too much or something like that. So it just ended up being me. Um, but no, it was also cause I wrote most of it, but I, I I've actually never been. So like, I, I, I have no strong feelings about orange drinks or not. You know, you go, you go get yourself some Aperol spritz, or what's the other one.
Speaker 2 00:22:54 I also maybe well come potties creates, of course, but I also wanted to add maybe to that, that in a way we steal are, you know, like not respecting, I don't want to be so strong in my phrasing, but like we still behaved within the broad dead somehow in line with our open criticism of the whole system. So the budget that we actually got for the project that we won through these cool four project has been completely invested in supporting these artists like these designers and these writers and in supporting our world work, of course, in like producing these breeze block and softness, working in organizing and curating this whole project and mean like producing the video. Of course, actually we should mention,
Speaker 3 00:23:50 I was thinking of it that we should definitely not forget <inaudible> Navitas. He was the filmmaker who helped all of us are specifically nor writers and designers to develop their videos because without him there would have been nothing. So we're very,
Speaker 2 00:24:10 Yeah. And, and he was great in like turning these visions that were, I would say rather upstroke when we first went to him into something so beautifully put together, I would say, but in general, yeah, I was just saying basically that we still manage to spend the money in a way that we are proud of. Um, and of course, like the whole event is just like us visiting the Biennale and like presenting the project in Venice together with, uh, with the other projects of the apartment program. But that also is not the only way through which we will present the project because after that event in Venice, the video series will be available on field architecture website. So we are of course, um, making it as widely accessible, as possible as all of our articles and breeze blogs and podcasts and so forth. So I think, um, yeah, that we can have a drink maybe.
Speaker 1 00:25:16 Yeah. It's just stupid. Cause it's like thinking about those sort of moratorium on felt, architecture, editors being present in Venice between the months of what like summer basically. Um, and autumn, uh, anyway. No, I think, yeah. Fair enough. Uh, you mentioned briefly that the videos will be made available on the website. I think maybe as a kind of final Roundup, maybe it's nice to just get you to speculate on the potential afterlives of this project.
Speaker 2 00:25:50 So we were of course thinking that for the Venice knowledge we got into these topics, but from a more creative approach and we looked at space and we look at these different manifestations, see how these dichotomy between human and non-human materialize in, in our everyday life and in the spaces of everyday life. But then of course we are extremely aware of the fact that even in our own research and uh, in this project, we've been only scratching the surface and, and we think that these topics are becoming more and more relevant and that, uh, as field architecture, we are very much interested in continuing investigating.
Speaker 1 00:26:44 You've been listening to failed architecture, breeze blocks, hosted and edited this time by me, Charlie Calamos with guests, Kiarra Dobler and Daphne backer, and a theme produced by Natalia Domingez wrangle. This was the first in a series of four episodes discussing the stories on earth project. Stay tuned for further conversations with each of the three participating writer, designer, pairings hosted by FAA editors, Kristin, who ADA is siloed.
