Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:04 Welcome to failed architecture, breeze blocks, where editors share their thoughts on works in progress, urgent matters, and current happenings in architecture and spatial politics. My name is Michael Nicholas and editor. I failed architecture and today I'm joined by Budapest based artists. Any me to talk about our new book, private views, a high-rise Panorama of Manhattan, a collection of photographs, transcripts, and essays from a series of visits meets in New York. City's luxury, super talls posing as a billionaire potential buyer. So, Andy, the first thing I wanted to ask you is what was the impetus of this project? What was the thing that got you interested in these buildings in the first place?
Speaker 1 00:00:42 Um, on one hand I'm I'm like into Heights to some extent, I mean, in this like a love, hate relationship with them, like I'm really afraid of Heights. So there's something that really attracts me to it. So as a first thing, I kind of just really realized that most of these like super tall towers in New York are all luxury residential towers that are newly built. So I guess really what struck me first is that I really want to see the view from there in this like really simple sense. But then of course, how I realized that all of them are actually residential skyscrapers. Also that universe started to attract me because also like in my previous work I work a lot with luxury and what it means and how usually on the paper, it seems different thing than what it ends up being. Yeah. So I guess all of these struck me, it's really kind of like gathered in one thing or my interests somehow.
Speaker 0 00:01:35 Yeah. Well I guess from the book they are luxury buildings, but the way that you focus on the interiors and these more for your sick shots that are separate from the kind of renderings you see in the grand photos of the exteriors of these buildings gives like a sense of sameness to all these buildings. So did you get that experience where there was concurrently the effort to make everything seem the same or be unique? At the same time,
Speaker 1 00:02:00 I try and hide to make everything unique, like really, really trying hard, but at the same time, because they want to address the same audience. They can not really go very far with this like uniqueness. So meanwhile, trying to be unique, they, at the same time, try to address as big audience as possible while being unique, which is kind of like a contradiction. So they really end up with just like really different marble names and for like an unexperienced eyes, it just the same, it's like a kitchen with a marble countertop. Doesn't really matter if it's Calacatta touchy or changing alarming, but they really phrase it as if it would be the most unique thing, because this is from this specific marble coming from the most special place of the planet handpicked by the developer himself. But at the same time, they really, really are identical except maybe one or two of these buildings, which look a bit different,
Speaker 0 00:02:58 What role architecture and the granting of different starchitects have in the advertising of these buildings,
Speaker 1 00:03:04 Huge like really, really huge role. Because I think at this price point, obviously you have a huge apartment, obviously everything is the best materials and the highest quality. So they have to add things on top of all of these things. And top of all of these things is kind of like this like cultural capital that they, they try to sell, which has to do a lot with like starchitects in some of the buildings, even artists are involved somehow in the, in the building. So in some of the buildings, actually they really, really build the entire marketing around certain architects, for example, that the building, which is actually not the tie, but it's, um, it somehow the same concept of luxury, which is along the Highline, the entire building is basically about Zaha. Like all the marketing speech of the agent was that the hub is the biggest argue that that was ever alive and that everything to the last single details, even the kitchen counter is designed by her.
Speaker 1 00:04:03 And that it's a unique thing because there is not going to be any more. So I'll be coming up in New York for the obvious reasons, but also in other buildings, the architect's name is like really part of the branding, like really, really strongly. And also like I think certain architects represent certain things. So various hats, like then the run is representing this like Swiss minimalism or these are at least the concepts that the agents are mentioning. Robert am stern is representing a totally different thing. He's more disliked about very conservative or like, oh, it's fashion. And then he's representing the 20th century, New York or New York and glorious day somehow, which I don't know if those days that they are trying to resemble ever existed, but that's the package of feelings they are trying to make you fear. So it's, it's not just like a name of an architect, but really dislike what they represent each of them separately.
Speaker 1 00:05:01 But certainly even architects that I think majority of the people has never heard of, they claim that it's the biggest architect or even they, they named them as like artists, architects. So they say that, yeah, he's, it's a artistic mind. And Sean Nova, for example, who was the architect of 53 west 53, which is the tower above MoMA to him, they always refer as the artist, which also just like, I think puts the whole thing in a different sphere for the buyer. Like instead of a, it's just a big thing with an architect. It's like, you're buying a piece of art because obviously people who would want to purchase an apartment about MoMA are interested in art. So somehow that's kind of the line where the lifestyle architects come in. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:05:47 That's really interesting, I guess. So, um, did you see the recent New York times article about 4 32 street and about the question of quality, the conditions of living there being not particularly luxury, did you get the sense that these buildings weren't for living or that some of the quality was maybe more for the sale and the actual use as a department? Of course,
Speaker 1 00:06:08 It's a really great article. And actually it was, um, Sam Stein, one of the contributors of the book who sent it over to me and this article talked about basically that the many of the tenants are now even like in like lawsuits with the developer, because they promised completely different things than what the building is actually providing because there are creaking walls and really strange noises. And the wind is just like moving the building a bit more than what it's supposed to be. So it's really not pleasant actually just to be there. And yes, certainly when you enter these buildings, you feel that it's not really made for a living to start with when you enter and building an apartment is completely with staged furniture. And you know, that this is actually someone's apartment. Like someone owns it, not the developer, but it's like a resale.
Speaker 1 00:06:54 It's very obvious that someone who has this much money and there's an apartment for, let's say $50 million, if it would be really for his or her own use would contract his or her own designer and make it to his or her own taste. But these apartments really, I just like kind of like a, like a bank, like a Tresor of money. So people just like keep their cash safe. But specifically in that building in foster 32 park, I do remember that there was this noise, which is a bit hard to explain what it was, but I didn't hear anything in any other building because there's just this a bit, all the time in the background. So yeah, that's a failed. Yeah. The architecture for sure.
Speaker 0 00:07:41 Good plug. So again, like with the views that the agents were always pointing out to you, to me, it seemed like the reference points are always like kind of buildings of old New York. It was the empire state building, the Chrysler building reef in central park. And the new buildings that you were viewing were always viewed as either a competitor or a nuisance. In some cases, do you think these buildings will ever reach the point where they're kind of icons in New York in the same way that the empire state building is? Or is there something fundamentally different about this kind of development and construction? I think it's
Speaker 1 00:08:11 Completely different. Of course, I don't know how much it played a role. The fact that I was a European customer who never lived in New York before in the story, because for that, the agents really played this role of, oh, she's coming to New York shortly. She will love empire state building Chrysler building. And these kinds of symbols of New York. I don't know if they would say the same things to a new Yorker, but at the same time, I think the other reason why they never mentioned that look that great new, super tall skyscraper is also in your view because if they would refer to the other one as a good one, they would fear that I might think, oh, that's a good one. Maybe I rather buy an apartment in that one. So I think also that play role, but at the same time, I don't think that actually, even these agents think about it as great addition to the skyline, which any of these buildings, which when you're in a building, they say that the one that you're in is a great addition to this pipeline, but they would never say to any other new skyscraper, I don't really think they've become similarly like a symbol of New York in any ways, because I think what makes, for example, empire state building.
Speaker 1 00:09:22 So symbolic is the fact that almost everyone who has been in New York, even as a tourist has been inside. So you have personal connection to it somehow, at least. But do these buildings, no one has a personal connection and no one ever will have. I mean, except of those few hundred people, but that's nothing, I think it's, it, it always will just remain as this anointment of the produce, this like huge shadows over the bark and or the other problematic things that comes with them.
Speaker 0 00:09:53 So one of the contributor essays, Sam sine, who we brunch in briefly pose the question about what the afterlife of these buildings might be like, is there a role for them pass the kind of useful life as like a park for money or luxury apartments? Do you see these buildings having other, any other use in the, in the future? Are they so purpose-built that this is really the only function that they could serve.
Speaker 1 00:10:16 And of course they could be like restructured, but I just don't think it will happen in any near future because in the near future it's really seems that there are just like more inequality coming up, which creates more routes on one side, which creates more money to be spent on these superfluous property. So I think in any near future that actually will be need and demand for these luxury skyscrapers and they're super overpriced apartments, but, but structurally of course, I think they could be restructured like very simply one of these 4,000 square feet apartment could be cut to 10 pieces. But of course it would be a totally different thing than, and I don't know if the Michelin star restaurants would still be inside the building, but yeah, it could be, but I don't think it would be, I don't think he'd ever be lb. Right.
Speaker 0 00:11:06 Yeah. Well, I guess, did you get a sense of, I'm trying to think of a good way to phrase this, but what qualities of these buildings did you feel like was purpose-built for a landmark that was completely stratified by inequality? Basically. Like what I obviously there was like specific conditions that led to the existence of these towers of like massive income inequality and like people just having tons of wealth. Was there any other way than what we talked about and where you saw that manifest in the physical form of the building? I mean, in
Speaker 1 00:11:36 Everything, I think the, what, what really came out when I was just inside the building is like the lifestyle that they imagined these people to have, which was kind of my experience of how they talk to me and the questions that they posed me really talked about a certain lifestyle. Like for example, when they act, suppose that I never go on the subway or like, of course I have the nanny, of course we have a personal chef and the personal assistant, I think all of these kind of like show this massive inequality, but it's not the building itself, but like how they imagine the owners of these apartments, at least the agents. But I think it is that fault. It's probably their experience. So it's really an existing thing that 99% of people who are purchasing apartments here have this kind of lifestyle, which really is about this massive inequality
Speaker 0 00:12:29 Kind of, kind of on a personal note. I was, I was curious what, what's the deal with all the freestanding tubs?
Speaker 1 00:12:34 I mean, I think that kind of became the symbol or almost like a meme of the high rise, luxury buildings, because when you are so high up that you can be just like naked in front of your window and look outside on people doing that daily duties that really represents this inequality as well. You're in your most intimate moments and they are in their daily life and you can look at them, but they don't see you somehow. I think that's what really this freestanding WestBridge presence. Yeah. But really in all of these apartments, I think really without an exception, there's a freestanding soaking tub in front of domestic glass window. And somehow in most of the real estate brochures, that's either on the cover or like you open it then on the first beach. So it's really like, that's how they try to emotionally persuade you to get displaced because this is how you will live here. And, and also like in many of these apartments, there are two master bathrooms. One of them is called Hertz and the other one is called his and the freestanding soaking up is always in her master bathroom. So they were always just very first and only showing it to me that imagine yourself sitting here. And so somehow I got this like a nice relationship with her free freestanding soaking Tufts after a while. Well,
Speaker 0 00:13:50 It was, it was pretty incredible that, I mean, obviously you were playing a part in the book, but I think equally the agents were kind of playing a part too. So it almost read like the dialogue in the book was like a play, like you're both insert, you're playing this role.
Speaker 1 00:14:03 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that, I think the nice thing that like, they always play the role, but like usually, um, clients don't or like clients, I just really just looking at an apartment, but to me it really felt like, um, acting for this unaware audience and they are also acting so it's totally fine, but yeah, yeah, they they're totally acting like some of them really had this. Like it was almost obvious that they like practiced some of the sentences or some of the things that they said that they Googled things about Hungary because I was a Hungarian billionaire and they just said it like, oh, you have a wonderful bridge. These kind of like really strange things that like, why, why do they say that it's not going to convince me more to buy this apartment, but they just wanted to, I think like create this personal bond with me. So I trust them more and I trust more their opinion about how great that specific apartment is, which ultimately will make me buy it. But yeah, yeah, it is, it is kind of like a role playing this whole as state agency situation or real estate viewing situation.
Speaker 0 00:15:05 Right. And I love the bit in the beginning where you mentioned that, like once you realized that it really didn't matter, the character you did, to an extent you can kind of just say these ridiculous things about other buildings and start criticizing other developments and they played along with you. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 00:15:19 They even went further. So kind of like I gave them one bite of something. They just made it more extreme though. So was really dislike. They try to please me in a sense, but it's a really nice realization when I realized that, like whatever I say, however, I dress is fine. Really there. I cannot, I cannot do anything wrong after the point that like I'm letting, because that's the only thing I have to jump through and then it's fine. So yeah, after awhile I was just like going and getting my own clothes, for example, which was like really relieving feeling.
Speaker 0 00:15:51 So there's a little kind of more pointed critique about the buildings in the essays in the end, but what would you like the takeaway to be about someone who obviously never had the chance to experience these buildings firsthand to T to take away from the, yeah, the book?
Speaker 1 00:16:06 Um, I think there are like kind of like differently years that I like to get through. So this top or first layer is really just, people can see those views that you might wonder how they are. That's the first layer. The second layer is kind of like show how this industry is working, which is like super unknown, I think. And obviously to most other people, because you, most of the people just have no access to it. And I think because it's like quite a nasty industry, it's really, it's kind of a good thing, at least from my perspective to like see the underbelly of it. And then obviously there's also this like other layer, which is like, I think it's funny somehow this conversation. So I like to amuse people, but also the underline of the whole thing is just this like crazy inequality that shows up in the book, which is very obvious, I guess, from the beginning.
Speaker 1 00:17:01 But I think when you read the story, I hope when you read it, it shows in this like very material sense, how it actually functions, not just like from the outside, see, there's a big building. So yeah. For example, Sam who we already mentioned before, just wrote me two days ago, that when he read that article in the New York times, about 4 32, he felt like much closer to it because he knew how that building actually is from the inside. And he knew more details about it and he knew how it could get so high because of everything he read in the book. So I think this is also kind of something I would like for people to take away from the book. Just a bit more knowledge about how this university's working or how it actually is in practice.
Speaker 0 00:17:43 I did want to say my favorite part of the book was I loved the part where, uh, they sat you down in the chair and they played the EFP last because you were European. I can't, I would not be able to, uh, keep a straight face if they, to that.
Speaker 1 00:17:57 That was a really crazy one, but there was also the one in, um, 15 central park west, I think it's the last day, the last year. I think so conversation that, that also sets me down and made me imagine things she's always like super strange when really they like close your eyes and do this and do that. And imagine your husband is coming with the champagne to the soaking tub and yeah, it's really bizarre. Some of those be less wonderful. Yeah. Really, really funny at times,
